10 replies to this topic

[Manitou]

Have you ever seen pre-cbs 1962 strats? I was confused because i never seen strat from this year which would have the same (or even similar) sunburst patter like John's guitar.
Original 62's have much more red paint and they never look like 2 tone sunburst which may happen with 1959 or 1963.

Look what i found.

Quote

Fender used a very photo-reactive red dye in their sunburst finish, causing many 1959 Strats to fade from a 3-color sunburst to a 2-colors (the photo-reactive nature of the red caused fading from ultra-violet light). This is typically seen on the front of the body, where the back often still has the red in the sunburst. If the pickguard is lifted, the original red finish in the sunburst can still be seen.

Lastly the red dye used in the 3-tone sunburst was not very robust, causing the red to often fade. Yea, the 2-tone sunburst is back (by accident)! The 1960 Stratocasters were pretty much the same as the 1959 model. Even the three color sunburst on 1960 models tended to fade just like the 1959 Fender Strats.

pic of original 1959.


check out dyed spots


and now his guitar. Check out that in 98 it has more red paint. Now it looks almost like 2 tone sunburst. Whats more - "black part" is a little bit brownish which is characteristic for 59 and 60. From 61 Fender used pure black paint.

look how red paint is fading
1998

2002


2006

2007

more red paint on the back of body

Quote

In 1961 Fender started using a more robust red dye for their three color sunburst. Also the dark brown part of the sunburst around the edge of the body is slightly more black. Hence the sunburst finish on a 1961 Fender Strat is much bolder looking. Fender also felt the need to add patent numbers to the peghead during 1961. Still has the "slab" rosewood fingerboard, but the back neck shape is larger

Fender now using a more robust red in their sunburst finish. Hence 1961 and later Strats don't have sunburst finished with a faded out red.

Some photos of typical 62'

[SkylinGTR26]

the man says he has a 62' strat.. i think we should believe him.
Besides, i doubt every sunburst paintjob back then was created equal.
Even today, you don't get the same sunburst twice, i'd imagine it'd be the same back then.
To be honest i think comparing vintage strats from 57/62 is pointless. The years aren't really the things that matter, its the guitar itself.

[Manitou]

SkylinGTR26, on 09 October 2010 - 05:58 PM, said:

the man says he has a 62' strat.. i think we should believe him.
Besides, i doubt every sunburst paintjob back then was created equal.
Even today, you don't get the same sunburst twice, i'd imagine it'd be the same back then.
To be honest i think comparing vintage strats from 57/62 is pointless. The years aren't really the things that matter, its the guitar itself.

Im not telling that John lied about his guitar. Im huge fan of stratocasters and i like to go into details of these guitars. He also told that his maple sunbusrt strat in 57 when it has 55 features. You never can be sure about pre-cbs strat because these items are really well priced and its common in USA to switch some parts from cheaper years or even sell fake stuff or bodies with unoriginal finish to make it look better and sell for better price. (on pre-cbs usa market beaten vintage strats are cheaper than clean ones)

I agree that there is no same sunburst but you can easily see differences between every year. It change because Fender changed production process many times (especially in 50' and 60'). I don't want to argue or something, i just like to talk about guitars so i wanted to hear some opinions about it.

[ryanliamg]

in the first picture, the one with the caption "the space boy has landed", is that really the same strat as in the other pictures? I can't believe how much wear it had within that amount of time, and then it is basically the same after that.

[bobthecow]

ryanliamg, on 09 October 2010 - 10:41 PM, said:

in the first picture, the one with the caption "the space boy has landed", is that really the same strat as in the other pictures? I can't believe how much wear it had within that amount of time, and then it is basically the same after that.

On a vintage guitar you get a ton of wear, my 1962 Strat is actually my dad's old guitar that he gave to me just recently. The paint jobs on these guitars are old and brittle, and once you get one decent size chip or scratch, it gets bigger and bigger really fast. Some people say that you can stop the process by using a thin coat of clear nail polish around the edges of the paint scrapes, I typically don't because I like my guitar to wear.

I attached photos of my guitar. It has worn quite alot over the 50 years it has been played.

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[ryanliamg]

bobthecow, on 11 October 2010 - 05:38 AM, said:

ryanliamg, on 09 October 2010 - 10:41 PM, said:

in the first picture, the one with the caption "the space boy has landed", is that really the same strat as in the other pictures? I can't believe how much wear it had within that amount of time, and then it is basically the same after that.

On a vintage guitar you get a ton of wear, my 1962 Strat is actually my dad's old guitar that he gave to me just recently. The paint jobs on these guitars are old and brittle, and once you get one decent size chip or scratch, it gets bigger and bigger really fast. Some people say that you can stop the process by using a thin coat of clear nail polish around the edges of the paint scrapes, I typically don't because I like my guitar to wear.

I attached photos of my guitar. It has worn quite alot over the 50 years it has been played.

right, I'm just pointing out that the guitar must have had a lot of wear in the very first few years John had it according to the picture progression. It looks as if it hasn't had much additional wear at all in the past 8 or so years.
I've really gotten used to seeing John's guitar as it is in the later pictures.

[bobthecow]

ryanliamg, on 11 October 2010 - 06:17 AM, said:

right, I'm just pointing out that the guitar must have had a lot of wear in the very first few years John had it according to the picture progression. It looks as if it hasn't had much additional wear at all in the past 8 or so years.
I've really gotten used to seeing John's guitar as it is in the later pictures.

The reason that the guitar hasn't worn as much recently is because the brown wears faster than the red. Nitro finish sunburst does this for a few reasons. The brown is sprayed, then it is sprayed again to make it darker(red), then it is sprayed again to make it darker still(black). The coats aren't any thicker because nitro laquer basically burns/melts into itself. However, the darker the nitro color the harder it is to wear down. If you look at the back of both mine and john's guitars most of the brown is gone, but the red and black are still there in pretty good condition.

[Manitou]

man... im so jealous about your strat. BEAUTY!

its from first months of 1962? Slab board?

ps. could you make better photos? I would love to see this guitar in day light.

[bobthecow]

Manitou, on 11 October 2010 - 07:19 PM, said:

man... im so jealous about your strat. BEAUTY!

its from first months of 1962? Slab board?

ps. could you make better photos? I would love to see this guitar in day light.

No, it is not a slab board. I wish it was, better sustain. You can tell it is Veneer because if it was slab the truss adjustment screw would be partially in the slab, but it isn't. Clay dot inlays. The neck is October 1962 the body is from May 1962. The tone and volume pots are from late 1961, the capacitor had to be replaced, so it is NOS. The wiring is still the original cloth + an extra ground wire I put in to reduce some of the humming problems that the old pickups are starting to have. I am thinking about having the original pickups wax-dipped to remedy that problem. The clone I had made actually uses NOS parts except for the pickups, which are, of course, duncan antiquity II. Honestly, if you want a DAMN good clone of a vintage guitar, PM me. These guys do amazing work, entire guitars-pickups for less than 1000 bucks.

I will try to get some better pics, but all I have is a phone camera.

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[Manitou]

bobthecow, on 11 October 2010 - 09:27 PM, said:

Manitou, on 11 October 2010 - 07:19 PM, said:

man... im so jealous about your strat. BEAUTY!

its from first months of 1962? Slab board?

ps. could you make better photos? I would love to see this guitar in day light.

No, it is not a slab board. I wish it was, better sustain. You can tell it is Veneer because if it was slab the truss adjustment screw would be partially in the slab, but it isn't. Clay dot inlays. The neck is October 1962 the body is from May 1962. The tone and volume pots are from late 1961, the capacitor had to be replaced, so it is NOS. The wiring is still the original cloth + an extra ground wire I put in to reduce some of the humming problems that the old pickups are starting to have. I am thinking about having the original pickups wax-dipped to remedy that problem. The clone I had made actually uses NOS parts except for the pickups, which are, of course, duncan antiquity II. Honestly, if you want a DAMN good clone of a vintage guitar, PM me. These guys do amazing work, entire guitars-pickups for less than 1000 bucks.

I will try to get some better pics, but all I have is a phone camera.

<heartattack>

Ahhh man thanks for pictures. I was looking for something like this!

Im starting new project with my luthier He is amazing in recreating these old pre-cbs strats. http://dreamguitarpr...om/en/about.php

I saw few strats from him and I would swear that they are real. I adore how he can recreate old nitro finish and tone. I tested "thin skin nitro" made by Fender and its not even close to his work and real vintage instruments. It will probably take like 1 year or more because he is really busy. Good nito finish need to harden for a long time, but i can't wait for results. It will cost me more than Fender Custom Shop but i don't care. I want him to recreate 62 with slab board, dark brazilian rosewood and all original features. He has some really nice, old alder for it.
I made huge research and I decided for surfers II. I was also thinking about Fralins. I heard that Seymour D team designed them to recreate 62 original pickups.

Btw, you have Custom Bridge pickup? How does it sound? Ohh and one more thing - did you replaced pickup covers? I wish to keep SD but i saw that some of them are heavly reliced and they are a little bit to dark for me. I don't like when pickups are darker than the rest of pickguard. I hope they will fit. (mint green ofc)

[bobthecow]

Manitou, on 12 October 2010 - 01:12 AM, said:

<heartattack>

Ahhh man thanks for pictures. I was looking for something like this!

Im starting new project with my luthier He is amazing in recreating these old pre-cbs strats. http://dreamguitarpr...om/en/about.php

I saw few strats from him and I would swear that they are real. I adore how he can recreate old nitro finish and tone. I tested "thin skin nitro" made by Fender and its not even close to his work and real vintage instruments. It will probably take like 1 year or more because he is really busy. Good nito finish need to harden for a long time, but i can't wait for results. It will cost me more than Fender Custom Shop but i don't care. I want him to recreate 62 with slab board, dark brazilian rosewood and all original features. He has some really nice, old alder for it.
I made huge research and I decided for surfers II. I was also thinking about Fralins. I heard that Seymour D team designed them to recreate 62 original pickups.

Btw, you have Custom Bridge pickup? How does it sound? Ohh and one more thing - did you replaced pickup covers? I wish to keep SD but i saw that some of them are heavly reliced and they are a little bit to dark for me. I don't like when pickups are darker than the rest of pickguard. I hope they will fit. (mint green ofc)

You are very correct, the thin skin finish the Fender does really isn't too terribly great, and the Re-Issue necks are just like mine, Veneer. Nitro finishes really only need about 2 weeks after being sprayed to be ready to go. If you are going for all original features, including the bridge and such, you are looking at ALOT of money. The guy that did my clone used some really old wood as well, the older wood really does sound much better.

No, I don't have the custom bridge, and if you want true vintage sound you have to get 3 Antiquity II Surfer neck pickups. Vintage fender guitars did not have a RW/RP in the middle, and the bridge was the same as the neck. The difference in tone comes from pickup placement only. On my clone I did replace the pickup covers duncan provided with some aged white fender ones. Like you, I think that they are just too dark. The ones on my original are nowhere near as yellow as the duncan covers, and my dad smokes ALOT.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I would have posted my other guitars up as well, but they are all at a friend of mine's house. He is trying to find the tone he likes so he is borrowing alot of my gear right now.