44 replies to this topic

[Surrogate_Helical]

I've been seriously trying to train my ear lately by learning songs (mainly RHCP and JF) and sometimes I find it easier than others to pick up what the guitar is actually doing.

I find myself struggling more with chords, lead parts I feel I have a good grasp on, but John is alwways prone to throwing in a strange chord here and there. And example is the fourth chord in Loss before the F#m. The chord is played like this

---------------
--------------
----4----------
----3----------
----4----------
---------------

This was the only chord that I had to look up in a tab, which is something I try to avoid as much as possible.

I was just wondering how you guys figure out songs by ear and if you consider yourself to be good at it. I'm interested to hear what techniques you use to try to figure out those weird chords. Any tips woud be appriciated

[Jurjen]

I am trying to learn it, though it isn't coming too fast. I recently figured out the solo of Don't Forget Me (wow! what an achievement )
Most of the songs I figure out accidentially, I do some chords and I find a song matching it...

[skitter]

i know what you mean. especially with some of his early stuff some of the chords are not exactly 'named' chords, but more an invention of his own. the only thing i do and which im sure you probably do yourself is to find the closest chord and then change whichever string (whether it sounds like an alteration of high or low is necessary) by a note or two and then try another one etc etc until i have what sounds as close as possible to his.

[Surrogate_Helical]

Yeah thats basically what I do. Only I'll think a chords accurate but my ear isn't trained enough to recognise a wrong note within a chord when I'm trying to pick up songs from records. Although I have much respect for people that can figure out the lilely postioning of the chord due to theoretical knowledge, which I have a bit of but I can always learn more. I'm sure it helps..Or take a tip from John and figure out Jimi Hendrix songs through meditating

[skitter]

Surrogate_Helical, on Aug 11 2006, 08:12 PM, said:

Yeah thats basically what I do. Only I'll think a chords accurate but my ear isn't trained enough to recognise a wrong note within a chord when I'm trying to pick up songs from records. Although I have much respect for people that can figure out the lilely postioning of the chord due to theoretical knowledge, which I have a bit of but I can always learn more. I'm sure it helps..Or take a tip from John and figure out Jimi Hendrix songs through meditating

i always mean to mediatate on a regular basis but its difficult to get into the habit, im sure its really helpful to your concentration. and i cant rely on my theory either - my knowledge of its crap ive never understood it and it seems so weird that someone can actually work it out that way - like how HOW?!

[funkymonk]

Basically, to learn songs, I either read tabs or watch videos of it (usually both) and whatever parts of the tab are wrong, I figure out on my own. I'm crap at figuring out songs myself from scratch.

[Surrogate_Helical]

I was angry the other day because I learnt the song Wishing..and ok the chords are pretty basic, but I could have kicked myself afterwards when I checked a tab of it to see if I was right. The chords I was playing were all within the right key, so that was ok, but some were the wrong way round and at the points where only two chords were used in a certain part of the song, I was hearing four chords in there! Which, after looking at the tab I realised was stupid. Basically I find it frustrating because even if I think I have learned a song correctly theres always a chord or two out of place after I've checked it, and then after that it always sounds correct. But its all part of the learning curve I guess

[skitter]

what really gets me is those people who post tabs of music on websites and they're so far from being right that i dont understand how they havnt been taken off! i mean seriously its as if theyre doing it as an ego boost thing. ugh
at least figuring it out yourself is good exercise and it trains you and i appreciate it when someone wants to do that and be accurate and get it right instead of settling for something that you yourself know is wrong. grrr.
rant over.

[yeh_yeh_]

The only way i find is the most efficient way for me to work out songs is to put the song on repeat and try and figure out little bits at a time. Then hopefully by the time the song has looped a billion times I have worked it out.
But yes sometimes it does help if i watch a video of the song too just to see what positions etc the guitarist's hand is at.

[daveisdaveuk]

My Advise on figuring out songs by ear is to firstly listen out for the baseline (my man flea!), then when you feel you have found the baseline (especially at chord changes), play the major and minor to that base note, if they dont fit then try other chord types, for example 7th, 9ths, sus4's etc. Also another way is to learn a lot of barre chords in various shapes so that you can check the chords played in the chili's songs easily, i recently figured out "she looks to me" by using recently learnt barre chords and picked the single notes out of these chords and they fitted the song! by the way im not very good at doing this yet because i dont practise it enough - keep on trying even when it doesnt feel your progressing very much because thats when you really progress, good luck hope my suggestions helped someone, peace.

[Iva]

Hey, you're new, I saw you around a couple of times...welcome

[skitter]

yes, hello!

you have an interesting way of working it out, and i must say im jealous that you know how to try out things like sus4, and 7ths, etc because i have no idea about that sort of thing - i just have to try and test each bit out - but your method sounds promising!

[bob]

for me it depends on what song i'm trying to figure out. I've had some weird moments where i'll pick up a guitar and the first things i play end up being right.
I recently found out that the first 2 chords in Been Insane are in different positions to where i've been playing it for the past 7 years - Eminor and Aminor (watching video of john doing the song)
I usually try and work out the root note to each chord and then work out the other notes within each chord. I don't know much theory about chords ie. the actual name of all the different chord shapes (but i can figure out a lot of them).
However John does like to play chords in different positions on the fretboard which makes some songs harder than others.

[Amyb]

i've just started playing this year. i really struggle trying to figure out stuff by ear. but hey, practice makes perfect i guess?!

[daveisdaveuk]

skitter, on Aug 25 2006, 08:23 PM, said:

yes, hello!

you have an interesting way of working it out, and i must say im jealous that you know how to try out things like sus4, and 7ths, etc because i have no idea about that sort of thing - i just have to try and test each bit out - but your method sounds promising!

Thanks very much, hope my previous advice does actually work!lol
When it comes to chords its not that complicated, because its really about building from the root, 3rd and fifth notes in any major or minor chord.
For example C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B
C E G
Root 3rd 5th
Move by: 4notes 3notes

From the chosen root note for example C note, build a chord by moving along the structure (above) by four notes to get the 3rd, then a further 3 notes from the third to get the fifth note, now you have made a C Major chord, to get the C Minor chord merely flatten the third by 1 note (which would be a D#).

To make a more complex chord you merely add another note in the mix, for example a C7th can be made by moving along from the 5th note in the C chord by 3notes (which would be an A# note)

If this is not clear, im happy to clarify the above and if you want can tell you how to make a sus4 and 7th chords.

[skitter]

hey, thanks for trying to explain.
i think i now understand the 3rd 5th thing.
could you write out a couple examples of chords (inc the sus4 and 7th stuff) in tab using what you just said? im not good at piecing stuff together other than when i see it in tab.

[james]

learning songs by ear doesn't come overnight. i think u have to be playing your guitar alot on a regular basis. this allows u to understand the instrument and the relationship between the intervals and your fingers. Understanding and practicing chord/scale/modal theory is extremely helpful as you can immediately recognise different progressions/intervals. Even to a guitarist only learning, but regularly practicing their chord theory, a i, v. prog is instantly recognisable. also, force yourself to learn some songs purely by ear, not tab. Or, get a tab, find a starting position on the fretboard and then go for it by ear. by only using tab then u become too reliant on it, not to say that u cant use tab at all... just make sure you can in fact live without it. Dependance on tab makes it especially hard to improvise/compose in your own way, as you may have music in your head, but aren't sure how to translate it to the fretboard as you are unsure of what intervals you are hearing. Practice makes perfect. By practicing scales everyday in different positions u will start to hear the intervals. Thus when u are listening to another song you can learn it by ear.

Oh, nearly forgot thew most important bit... if you understand chord theory, especially chordal scales then once you know what key a song is in... (which can be done by trial and error of a scale) then you know the possible set of chords. There are exceptions of course as the theory becomes advanced. eg jazz. But for example if you know that a song is in c major or another mode in the same key the possible chords are: cmaj7, dmin7, emin7, fmaj7, G7, Amin7, Bmin7b5 (can be without extensions (7ths) or with other added notes, but you get the general jist.) By using trial and error of these chords you can figure out any song in C major.

[triplepant]

i really try but i easily get disappointed

[unhinged-sock]

How good am I at figuring out songs by ear.... awful!! LOL ultimate-guitar.com for me 100%... ha ha ha

[triplepant]

unhinged-sock, on Dec 10 2007, 08:20 PM, said:

How good am I at figuring out songs by ear.... awful!! LOL ultimate-guitar.com for me 100%... ha ha ha

Yeah I really hate those tab sites nowadays... Imagine how it would be without these tab sites... It would be like in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Everybody who really wanted to learn guitar would have towork really hard to figure songs out. There would be a lot more good guitar players now without these tab sites. I learnd songs with tabs myself, but I haven't used tabs since one year now and I'm really Proud. Did Eric Calpton use Tabs? Did Jimi Hendrix use tabs? No. I also think that if you learn Songs by ear you get another perspective of a song. You get a differnt relationship with the song. With Tabs the Songs didn't have much meanigs to me. When I started learning them by Ear that changed. Thats how I feel about it.